The Football Interview is a new series in which the biggest names in sport and entertainment join host Kelly Somers for bold and in-depth conversations about the nation’s favourite sport.
We’ll explore mindset and motivation, and talk about defining moments, career highs and personal reflections. The Football Interview brings you the person behind the player.
Interviews will drop on weekends across BBC iPlayer, YouTube, BBC Sounds and the BBC Sport website. This week’s interview will be broadcast on BBC One from 23:40 BST on Saturday, 21 March (and in Scotland at 00:55 on Sunday).
Asking James Milner to choose the one match from his career he would like to relive is not straightforward. Not least because the Brighton midfielder has played in quite a few.
Milner, 40, recently broke Gareth Barry’s record for most Premier League appearances and has now taken his tally to 656.
He made his first-team debut for hometown club Leeds in November 2002, was once the Premier League’s youngest goalscorer and is now its oldest.
In the interim, Milner has played for a string of big clubs and collected numerous trophies. As part of dynasties at Manchester City and Liverpool, he won three Premier League titles, one Champions League, two FA Cups and one League Cup, as well as other honours.
In this week’s Football Interview he tells Kelly Somers that one of his biggest achievements to date was to get back on the pitch this season after being sidelined for nine months after a knee operation that left him unable to lift his foot.
Kelly Somers: Well, James… good to see you. I always start these interviews by going back to the very beginning. What would a young James Milner have made of what you have achieved – becoming the Premier League all-time record appearance holder?
James Milner: Yeah, I think it’s hard to say. I suppose when you’re that age, you’re just trying to get in the first team, first and foremost… get in and around there and stay in there, and then: ‘What’s the next thing?’ It’s always ‘what’s the next achievement?’ and ‘never rest on your laurels’ sort of thing really. So, yeah, I definitely wouldn’t be thinking too far ahead – never mind 20-odd years ahead and thinking I’d still be playing.
Kelly: Has it all been quite surreal because there’s been so much understandable hype around it… you getting to the record… when you were going to break it and the fact that you have. Has it been quite weird?
Milner: For me, yeah, I’ve obviously been asked about it a lot…
Kelly: Sorry to add to that list of people asking…
James: No, no… it is obviously a nice thing in terms of people acknowledging that it’s a big number. It’s a lot of games, but I’ve just been concentrating on doing my job for Brighton really, and if I hit the number then great. It wasn’t something that I’m like: ‘Ah, I need to do this’. Everyone else asked lots of questions about it and I think the narrative around it then is like, that’s the only reason why I’m still playing, sort of thing. If you spoke to me, or anyone who knows me, I just want to contribute to my team and keep pushing and helping the club here.
There’s been some really nice tributes and stuff like that. Messages I’ve had obviously, which is… I don’t want to downplay those and sort of seem like it doesn’t matter or anything because obviously it’s so nice and some of the things people have said is fantastic… but, for me, individual stuff is something maybe you look at when you’ve finished. For me, it’s always about the team and just doing your job, and hopefully I can keep doing that.
Kelly: What is your first football memory then?
James: First football memory would be Leeds United winning the First Division title [in 1991-92] and my dad picking me up in the lounge and throwing me round and saying: ‘Enjoy it – it might never happen again in your lifetime.’ I would have been five at that point.
Kelly: Oh really? So, at that point you knew it was Leeds for life?
James: Yeah, that was the first memory and then we started going to games and stuff after that. I had a season ticket and, yeah, it went from there.
Kelly: What about kicking a ball? Were you kicking it then? Were you showing an interest?
James: Yeah, I mean maybe. I can’t remember much of it. I remember playing my first ever game for the local team. It was Westbrook Juniors and we lost 16-2 and it was like full-size pitch, full-size goals. You’ve got to bounce back from that score!
Kelly: I love that that’s stuck with you – the actual scoreline… exactly how many you conceded.
James: Yeah, it has. I played a season there and then that team stopped and then the next team I played for was under-12s – I think I was nine. And then I got scouted for Leeds.
Kelly: Which I imagine was the dream, wasn’t it… from your dad lifting you up?
James: Yeah, it was weird really because until that point as a kid, I’d never really thought about being a footballer. Obviously, you love football and I was playing football, but it never crossed my mind that I could actually do it myself. Yeah, for whatever reason… I mean, you’re nine years old and you’re just being a kid really. So, that was the first time and then going and putting the Leeds training kit on and having a trial and… obviously that was special as a Leeds fan and that was the dream then.
Kelly: Can you remember your first training session at Leeds?
James: I remember my first training session with the reserves. David Batty was one side of me and someone else was on the other and I was like, ‘Oh my God’… like, it’s Batts… legend! And getting over that and then pretty quick, I got sent over to the first team.
I don’t know if someone got sent in or if they needed a number and it was like: ‘Go try him with the first team.’ You don’t have time to think about it when you get involved. I just remember the speed of it. It was like, ‘wow, this is ridiculous’.
I remember, like, ‘welcome to the first team, kid’ sort of thing. You get tested, you get shouted at if you give the ball away. I remember breaking my nose actually in training. I got a pretty strong tackle from one of the younger players in the first team. I was 16, he was maybe 20. I got kicked in the face on the floor and broke my nose and… that was one of the early days.
You’ve got to toughen up and get on with it, but you know, the senior boys were great… [Danny] Mills and Gary Kelly and Mark Viduka. Alan Smith was, you know, the one I looked up to. He was the guy who’d come through the academy and scored with his first touch at Anfield and done what we all wanted to do.
Leeds‘ academy had been so great over the years, you know… Harry Kewell and [Jonathan] Woodgate, Paul Robinson, Alan Smith… the list goes on.
Looking back now, at 16, having just done my GCSEs and being with the first team, it’s like, ‘phew’ but at the time, you’re just focused and trying to prove that you belong there.
Kelly: 2002 was quite a big year for you wasn’t it really, with everything? Was it first Premier League goal, Premier League appearance… and you were so young.
James: Yeah, I look back now and you think how young you were. Three, four months before, I’d been doing my GCSEs and my mates were still in sixth form and coming to watch at Elland Road.
Kelly: Can you remember your first goal?
James: Yeah. I think I’d come on early for Harry Kewell maybe. Jason Wilcox whipped it over and I got it at the front post. And then we played two days later at Elland Road – 26th, 28th we played – and, you know, came on early again – someone else got injured – and was lucky enough to score again.
Kelly: Happened quite quickly…
James: Yeah, I’d say it was a bit of an explosion at that point and, you know, two goals in three days. And obviously Wayne Rooney was doing his thing before that as well in the same season. Two 16-year-olds coming through at the same time. As good as he was, I think that took quite a lot of pressure off me as well because there was a lot of limelight on him. So, although I was doing OK, I think the majority of the spotlight was on him. I think that probably helped me as well.
Kelly: Who was the best manager that you’ve played under?
James: It’s tough because obviously it’ll go back to Terry [Venables] and Sir Bobby [Robson] and you think, like, absolute legends. I’m so thankful to someone like Terry Venables who – in a team that wasn’t doing particularly well – to have the confidence to stick a 16-year-old in. You go through the years and then, you know, you’re looking at someone like Jurgen [Klopp].
I think all-round, I’d have to say Jurgen in terms of as a man, as a character… how he improved me, what I learned from him, the relationship we had in terms of being able to say exactly what we thought and be taken in the right way… and knew that we were both 100% in everything that we did.
Kelly: Did that sometimes result in any clashes?
James: Yeah, now and then. Not many. But it was a clash that he knew that I wanted to win and he was the same. We didn’t have any big clashes. He’d maybe tell me to shut up at times and things like that, but he knew I just wanted to help him and was frustrated in whatever way and things like that, and it was always done with respect. Obviously, there were times you’d come in at half-time and expect a rocket and he was the opposite – he was really soft. And other times you’d be on fire and playing really well and he’d come in and go mad over one little thing, just to keep you on your toes.
You know, 99% of the time he got it bang on, didn’t he? So, yeah, I think as an all-round manager, I think he was high level. When he came in at Liverpool, we weren’t by any means the favourites in the Premier League to win anything, so what he built there was special.
Kelly: What’s one game – and I think we’ve established you’ve played a fair few – that you wish you could relive?
James: It’s hard to do one. I think the early… first goal at Elland Road, the Chelsea game. I think reliving that as a Leeds fan and not being that old and not playing for Leeds that much longer, I’d love to experience that again.
And I’d probably say it has to be Barcelona I think in the semi-final [for Liverpool in the Champions League]. Obviously, losing heavily in the first leg against a world-class team like Barcelona. And we had players missing on the night as well. I think to be able to turn that around and win 4-0 was an incredible night and, yeah, I think that was probably the most special evening.
Kelly: So that’s the highs. What about the toughest moment?
James: Being relegated with Leeds I think is up there again. A long time ago, but you wait so long to play for your hometown club and the year before I made my debut I think we got to the Champions League semi-final. So, then a couple of years later to get relegated…
I think any time you lose a final… I’ve been fortunate enough to win some trophies, but I’ve lost a fair few finals as well, so that’s never nice.
Kelly: Is there one in particular that you look back on?
James: I think Champions League finals. I think, the first one, you know, [Gareth] Bale scores one of the greatest goals in European Cup history, I would say. A floated ball into the box, bicycle kick in a game where we’d just got back in – 1-1.
In that time, we had the team where you had that momentum and we’d just dominate teams for 10-15-minute spells where the speed we put into the game was ridiculous and we could overwhelm teams. We had our backs up and the fans were with us and to do that goal… it just killed the momentum of the game.
And then the other Champions League final where we played really well and, you know, they had a robot in goal! He [Thibaut Courtois] saved everything we chucked at him. I think to lose European Cup finals is probably very low.
Personally, probably last year was very tough with the injury I had. Obviously, the age you’re at and not knowing what was going to happen… I think that was probably a really tough year.
Kelly: Did you ever think that would be it?
James: Yeah, I think probably everyone did! The physio I was working with, and people like that. I think to not be able to lift your foot for six months as a 39-year-old footballer, it’s probably not the ideal scenario where you’re going to turn around and say, ‘yeah, you’re going to be on fire next year’ and play games.
I think, for me, that was probably a driver, that it was so unlikely. You want to prove again you can beat the odds and, luckily enough, I managed to do it and it’s great to be back out there this year and playing and being with the boys out in the field.
Kelly: I’m sure a lot of people like myself have come and tried to get you to reflect on everything since you’ve reached this landmark, but has it given you the opportunity to look back at just how much football has changed? And I want to know what you don’t like as much…
James: It has changed a lot. We’ve had a few conversations and topics around it – I think there was one earlier this year where we scored a goal in the Carabao, I think, and a few of the young boys had the tiniest shinpads on.
I think people’s shinpads now are that small because you can’t really tackle, whereas when I first came through, the first pass you got, you know you’re getting walloped from behind. As a winger, the full-back’s coming through you first one and he’s saying, ‘first one ref’ and he’s like, ‘yeah all right’. The first one’s free. You could go in quite hard, whereas now you have to be very careful. You can still do firm challenges, but if you get it the tiniest bit wrong…
So, I think that’s changed. The pitches have changed. The pitches are obviously a lot better now. You used to have a period in probably November, December, January where it was a bit ropey and you might even be like, ‘keep it wide today lads’ and backpasses wide of the goal because it’s bobbly. Obviously we’re fortunate that that’s changed. On the not-so-fortunate side, I would say, in my opinion, VAR coming in is obviously a big change and something that I’m not overly in favour of. But that’s my personal opinion.
Kelly: We’ve also had a fair few people talk about being at your 40th birthday in January and it was like a who’s who of football…
James: Yeah, when you’ve played as long as I have and been fortunate to play with so many good people, it’s tough to see each other as often with the schedules and stuff, so it was great to get together. It’s an amazing thing in football and a strange thing that you can be so close with people and spend so much time travelling and going through ups and downs and successes together and you get really close and then one day a transfer happens and that’s it, they’re gone.
And you know what men are like as well – we’re not great at keeping in contact. The odd message here and there. That’s the strange part of it. And then obviously people get older and retire and obviously a lot of people that I’ve played with, now you see them on TV every time you turn it on. I think, ‘oh, played with him, played with him, played with him. Played against him, he was horrible…’
Kelly: What do you think they say about you?
James: Who knows?
Kelly: What’s the one thing that people get wrong about you the most?
James: I don’t want to say it, but I’d probably say the ‘boring’ thing. But maybe we have to cut that out because I don’t mind them thinking that.
Kelly: So it’s all an act?
James: Yeah, I think so.
Kelly: Have you kind of embraced that in a way?
James: Yeah, I don’t mind at all. We’ve had a laugh with it on social media and dived into it and stuff like that and, yeah, it’s been good…
Kelly: Because you’re not boring are you? I’ve been told by quite a few people.
James: Well, it’s an opinion isn’t it, I suppose? There’s plenty who might think that, but I think it’s been quite funny and there’s been a lot of fun around it and I’ve had fun with it myself. I don’t mind getting involved with the banter in the changing room and things like that.
People who know me will probably question it, but I’m more than happy with people having that opinion.
Kelly: Tell me something about yourself that would surprise me. That you’re not boring – don’t say that.
James: I started learning how to play the piano the last few years.
Kelly: OK, how come?
James: I bought the kids a keyboard for Christmas. They went to bed and I started tinkering around on it and then a bit more, bit more and then that developed into: ‘Let’s get a piano.’ It went from there.
Kelly: Does that tell us a lot about your personality in terms of… you can’t just do something. If you’re going to do it, you’re all in and you’ve got to prove everyone wrong?
James: Yeah, pretty much. I think if I’m doing something, I’m doing it to the best of my ability and having a good go.
Kelly: Are you any good? And what can you play?
James: I wouldn’t say I’m good, but I’m improving. I can play a bit of Elton John and Adele and things like that. I’m OKm but over the next few years, maybe I’ll have a bit more time where I can practise a bit more.
Kelly: What are you proudest of?
James: I’d probably say the two things for me was being able to go to Man City, who hadn’t won anything for a long time and being part of that group that won the first trophies there and started this era of success and being part of that.
And then being able to go to Liverpool in a time where they hadn’t won too much in recent history and being part of that success.
I think being able to help two different teams start an era of success in their recent history – I think you’re lucky if you can do that with one team and experience those things. I think to be able to do that with two… that’s something that I’m proud of.
Like I say, that’s probably more me than an individual record – it’s something that you’ve achieved as a group.
Kelly: How long can you go on for?
James: I mean, who knows? Things change very quickly in football. After last year, where I couldn’t lift my foot – and especially when you get a bit older, things change very quickly…
And football changes quick, so who knows? But how I feel currently, I could probably do a few more years if I wanted to, but it has to be the right…
Kelly: Do you want to?
James: I feel physically and mentally I still have that drive. I get looked after very well here – the physios are fantastic, knowing how to load me, the work, when to push and when to pull back. That’s very good and has helped me be in the nick I’m in and, touch wood, be pretty good with injuries this year.
But, again, who knows what the club wants? Are they happy with me here and things like that? There’s a lot of moving parts, but I still feel pretty good.
Kelly: And if not, Premier League manager?
James: Some days you think that would be interesting and something I could be good at and other days, you know, you see how tough the job is. It’s so difficult. You don’t get a lot of time, do you, to stamp your mark on a team these days and things like that, so who knows?
There’s a lot of aspects that I’ve been fortunate enough to be around… learning from Jurgen and then coming here and being involved in a lot of conversations.
Last year when I was injured, the manager’s been brilliant at including me in a lot of things and learning and thinking. When you get to a certain age, you think so much more about the team than yourself and you’re thinking about the dynamics and personalities and when to give people a kick up the arse and when to put an arm around them and thinking, ‘how this will affect the team?’ instead of just yourself.
Because I’ve played so long, I feel like I’ve been in that period for quite a while. That’s been a great learning curve. But I know how hard he [Brighton boss Fabian Hurzeler] works and how hard you have to work and I think after playing for so long and having that intensity for so long, I think the first thing is probably to have a bit of a rest.
Kelly: And, finally, if you could tell a young James Milner one thing now, what would it be?
James: I’d probably say, ‘enjoy it more’, but I don’t think it’s possible. I think if you’re always pushing for the next game and the next win…
So, I’d probably say: ‘Try and enjoy it as much as you can.’ And the young James Milner would probably say: ‘No, let’s get on the next one.’
Kelly: Well James, thank you so much for talking to us today. It was fascinating.
James: No problem.